hi T and everyone,
I haven’t find so far a dedicated spat object or a trick to wide the diffusion of a localized sound in the sound field. … maybe i haven’t looked well.
btw,spat is just incredible. I don’t regret one second getting it.
thanks in advance for the help, and excuse the newbie question!
-e
Hi,
Dont apologize for asking question !
You can “blur” the spatial diffusion by using the “spread” message.
(it’s far from perfect, but it kind of does the job)
Have a look at the attached patch.
T.
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-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
thanks T for the patch and suggestion
it does work. Actually as you said, weird to explain, it is more a feeling, it doesn’t sound like smooth widering…not perfect but i think it is useable
However, any chance you could work on a wider kind of object - especially for a hoa enconding -in the future?
-e
When it comes to HOA encoding there is another solution:
you can use the spat.hoatransform~ object to apply a weighting function to the HOA components.
If you reduce the weights of the high order components, this will somehow broaden the sound field (this will actually make it more ‘omnidirectional’).
You can have a look at the spat.hoatransform~ help patch. (in the latest version 4.7.5 there is a ‘spread’ knob)
T.
thanks.
I used hoatransform as you suggested. Very nice. So in my set up, that would mean to have like a spat.transform for ‘geometric’ transformation , and a hoa.transform for sound field transformation.
So that’s matter of tool choice.
That brings me on another level of my question. Thing is, when it comes to sound field transformation, there’s no monitoring tool? isn’t it? that could be very usefull to have like a visualization tool for harmonics in the sound field)
Because you don’t actually rotate a source for instance, but the entire soundfield around the listening spot. Risk is in a live set up configuration, It could be very confusing to have a spat.transform to rotate sources postions, and spat.hoa to rotate the entire sound field… at some point you are losing your babies’s traces 
well, anyways, thanks!
-e.
What kind of visualization tool would you expect ?
spat.sh provides some sort of visualization of harmonics; not sure if that can help you.
Then I agree that it’s more complex to monitor the sound field when you mix object-based approach (spat~) and scene-based approach (HOA).
There is no ready-to-use solution, but I’m open to suggestions.
T.
Hi,
im catching up the conversation again. Well i guess you know the CICM HOA library? i think there are few interesting approach in term of harmonics and energy visualisation that helps the artist to understand what is happening in the sound filed. I think that’d be cool to have a kind of that object in the spat. I actually patched one of their object to spat. It does work, but there few difference inside the code itself i think that makes the visualisation being (degree ordre).
Talking about their library, there is also very interesting processing objects like a wider object for the hoa soundfield. I haven’t tested to patch with spat yet , but i will. As a general matter, getting more ambisonic processing object (delay, ringmod, grain), is something i would love to find in the nxt of spat
i guess you two have different approach, but why don’t you guys try to make just a library that’d sum up the best of the two? i read that ircam has collaborated to this library… kind of confusing
E.
Hi,
Could you precise a bit what is meant by “ambisonic processing object” (delay, ringmod, grain)? (just curious)
M.
hi,
I meant object that’d process the sound in a ambisonic context, (not dynamic like compression, equalization). Ok there’s reverb and a delay. Spat is very well equipped and reach the perfection when it comes to configure and built a soundfield, acoustically.
But as an artist/musician, i would love to also find tools designed to process sound in an ambisonic for instance, to create the esthetics.
In the cicm hoa library, the wider object works pretty well and it’s easy to patch. There’s also a grain tool, ring mod. That is some leads maybe to dig.
Well anyways… that was just a suggestion.
To the best of my knowledge, the kind of effects you mention (i.e. the kind of effects proposed in the CICM library) do not have any « spatial/acoustical grounds » (except for the wider).
I mean they are not spatial effects per se; they are just very standard audio effects which happen to be applied to the harmonics signals, likely with different parameters for each harmonics in order to « modulate » the effect. (although I admit this have some consequences on the spatiality of the sound field!)
Anyway, I do hear your request, and I understand that this is interesting for artists/sound designers.
So, I could add such kind of effects into Spat (and they would be super easy to implement; you could actually do it by patching).
My main concern is : you asked for ringmod and grain. Maybe tomorrow someone else will ask for dynamics effects or flanging or bitcrusher or whatever crazy stuff.
And I wont be able to include all this into Spat (furthermore each artist/composer has its own opinion on how these effects should be controlled/parameterized).
So, thanks for your suggestion. I’ll sleep on it, and we’ll see what I can/will do.
hi T,
thanks for answering… but don’t get me wrong Personally, I have not interest in getting a bunch of these usual processing fx as you can have in any daw, especially if they don’t have as you said, ambisonics/ or other spatial ground. For these simply fx, I know that you can patch your own object in order to get your need. That’s the idea of max msp. My mistake is that i felt (because i tried them) that the CICM process objects were really spacial effect.
But if you ask me, i’d say that we are just missing few spatial tools that’d send spat to a different level, and wide it’s potentiality beyond acoustic engineering. If you propose some, at least the artist can make a choice afterwards. It is surely a better benefit than not to have them.
But really, no big deal if it doesn’t sound interested
well, let’s get agree on the wider thing at least?
“let’s get agree on the wider thing at least?”
What do you mean ?
you said : do not have any « spatial/acoustical grounds » (except for the wider).
i say, i am agree.
OK. Sorry I wasnt sure to understand.
Anyway, I had a quick look at the CICM HOALib. Looks well done.
I can definitely make something similar to hoa.wider~ (that would actually just be a ‘spread’ law for spat.hoatransform~, no big deal).
Will do that whenever I have 5 minutes free.
Cheers,
T.