if you are still looking to make a m4l device then this might help you: https://forum.ircam.fr/projects/detail/forummaxapps2-spat5/
as I wrote before, I’m just at home, so if you need a m4l device and can’t wait for fraction’s baby, I would happily look into helping you make one for your setup.
Hi Emil,
Thank you very much for your generous offer. I’ve had a grad student who is skilled with M4L and Spat configure 3 patches (2 speakers, 4 and 8). But it works in Ableton Live with Oper, which is a little clumsy.
Currently, I only have use for 2 and 4 channel versions for Live. If you have versions that can save trajectories for specific pieces and also for live-input performances, that would be hugely helpful.
I’m not sure whether this explanation is clear enough, but I’m sure we can figure out details.
Hello again,
yes I totally get what you mean, and yes beyond 4 channels max and oper is the way
the thing to do is to use “live” objects with autopattr, and then use live’s automation to do trajectories, and as long as every parameter you use have a “live” object, settings can be saved and recalled just by saving live. So oper is still there but you do not touch it.
The routing of sources will be done with live’s mc capabilities, and every source needs a set of “live” objects that is named proplably. ex. azimuth1 azimuth2.
So if you could say how many sources you would need at max and maybe a email, I will gladly make some devices for you.
I could also make a toturial patch that explains clearly what to do.
oh and in the link I send before the great Manuel have made a one source stereo m4l device that can be saved and recalled, and a lot of other nice stuff, actually all the info you need is in Manuel’s patches and the “audio routes” documentation.
let’s talk tomorrow goodnight <3
Hi Emil,
Thanks for your detailed reply. You reminded me that the versions I have don’t have pattr storage. Big omission.
2 and 4 channels are all that are practical for me. When I play live, it’s usually a stereo PA. At home, I have 4 and 8 speakers, but 8 is a nightmare of cables all over the place, so I rarely use it. I sometimes play at York University’s Dispersion Lab with 24 speakers, but their tech does all the routing (he’s the guy that did my Spat patches).
Should I send them to you so that you don’t have to build things from scratch? If so, can I do that throught the Forum or do I need your personal email?
Talk tomorrow.
hello I have send you a message with my info 
sometimes soon, i hope my solution will solve all those issues in the ableton user community
I aim to make it available around march/april.
Meanwhile, stay tuned and if possible follow me here:
https://www.instagram.com/fraction_is_noise/
that’s likely from there that i will keep the community informed in a regular basis,
Hi Fraction,
Hope you are well and have avoided Covid contacts.
Have you made your Max for Live Spat device available yet? Any timeline? Please keep me posted as I have a project that would benefit from your expertise.
Thanks,
Glen
Hi Glen,
sorry i missed your message. I m rarely around here.
Thx for your interest. The m4l is not available yet. But, without revealing too much, i hope to release it now, really, within several weeks, before summer.
After an immense amount of work, i can tell that I m also looking forward to share it, but i had to make sure it was steady enough before considering sharing it with the community and other users than me,
Comparatively to the video you saw few months before, it’s way more cool 
stay tuned!
-eric.
Hi Eric,
Thanks for your response. I’m really excited to experience your m4l ‘monster’. I was blown away but what I saw in your video. Now I’m seriously pumped to see what else you are going ‘loose on the world’!
Looking forward intensely.
Glen
Hello Eric,
I saw your talk at the symposium and since then I’m really excited and can’t wait when you will release it.
Greetings
Simon
thx Simon ! it’s on its way. I m doing my best to have it released sometimes in June, to be realist, more likely at the end of June.
Hi @glenhall @simonr and other possible interested
I will be releasing the project in a couple of weeks now, hopefully in June. Before that, I will be sharing on regular basis through social network, information on how it works, what it can do, videos and pictures, and other contents. I recommend you to follow whether you use instagram or facebook one of this as i dont think i will be able to share all contents here :
Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/xp4live/
By the way, the baby’s name is “xp-for-live”
cheers!
Eric.
As T. has just released spat 5.2.4, i can now start to schedule the release of xp, which will happen if everything goes well for that release test by the end of July. Some video tutorials will be shared on the socials in the meantime,
Thx a lot T for that release,
cheers all!
Hi everyone,
I m about to release xp for live.
It was a tremendous work to be honest and i reached the maximum point i could with my own ressources and knowledge. A dynamic spat implantation in Ableton was a silly challenge. We all know here that performance won’t reach in any ways what’s possible with max, which i ve been using since years now. But, while i almost abandoned the project several times, i was aware that popularizing spatial sound work should take a path through the most popular daw, especially for the young generation. So i finally decided to finalize it notably for that reason. Even though you cant do what you achieve normally with max, it’s a way to expose new ground of artists to our medium. I wanted to create my own 3d environnement, so in addition, there was a crazy challenge to instantiate 3 different environnements at the same times when you save a project in live for instance, knowing the constrain of spat initialization.
So xp4l is having a lot of limitations in terms of performance, but on the other side, it also comes with several goodies that i hope it could make it being someking of "pocket’ toy for beginners. I have limited xp to 16sources. While instancing is pretty straight forward, saving and loading a project of 16sources with live takes sometime. Anyways, playing live more than 16 sources at the same time is pretty much impossible. I m aware it could be better, or made through a different approach, but anyways, it’s a starting humble contribution and i hope to be able to iteratively improve the entire system from there, step by step. I already have some cool idea, especially around the use of openGl. But nonetheless, very likely it won’t be very useful to
the advanced spat5~ users.
xp4l is made of a standalone max based application and a m4l suit made of 5 devices :
I have made a special website that will be opened by the end of the week. m4l suit is free and i m asking community support for the standalone to be able to keep developing it. The application is only based on my content, and actually a pretty cool thing of the project. I might want to port it to pure max in the future.
For the fun, a little video content with just one source animated with a procedural function, and displaying somekind of wavefoor in the field:
have a nice day!
Excellent, Eric. Thank you for all your hard work. I am truly grateful that you have made this happen. Congratulations!
Website is on https://www.xp4l.com/
you can get a demo package here xp4l.demo.macOS – xp4l
It requires to create a user account
Remember: xp4l doesn’t provide any of the spat externals in its devices, so users should make sure they have the very last version of Spat library (5.24) installed.
I would like to take the opportunity to thank T. for beyond spat improvement itself, his implementation in spat of the Cnmat compatible osc kind of objets (spat5.osc.#), which i started to intensively use and eventually became very important for this project achievement,
Greetings from Paris!
Sharing here more details about installation process.
Installation is almost three clic:
1- Install xp4l.demo.
Run xp4l.demo.pkg and follow instructions.
xp4l.demo must be installed in your Application folder.
2- Install demo package
Click on the appropriate .alp file to install the Ableton Live package for your system, Live 10 or Live 11.
Ableton Live will install the package according to your preferences.
3- Restart Ableton, and load the xp4l.demo.live.als from the installed folder.
The xp4l.engine and xp4l.source devices are located under /Presets/Audio Effects/Max Audio Effect/Imported. You can choose to leave them there and try the project as is, or move them to your favorite max-for-live folder.
You can use that demo project or start from scratch like in this video:
-e
Announcement day.
xp4l macOS is out today.
After literally months of works, a library of 176 patcher/abstractions, a gigantic osc based architecture, i have reached i believe an elegant version. The demo will remain online, but i largely review the code architecture, which makes this full version being much more efficient and promising.
xp4l is made of a suite of 5 maxforlive devices (free), and a standalone (purchase) which is a 3d monitor that handles as well instancing of Ableton and each of the devices.
Xp4l offers a flexible and dynamic configuration of spatial sound project within live ableton up to 62 channels output, 16 sources (for now), 4 rooms, 5 groups, comes by combining sources and groups animation with an almost unlimited possibility of sound field animation, a preset management system for sources and rooms configuration, animation and user custom layout, and make possible to record multichannel stream (also encoded in the case of hoa). It does hybridize Ableton workflow through a transparent way.
Some very cool new features are already in the pipeline. Before that, windows version is scheduled in a month or two.
That piece of software is a some kind of really un-expected consequence of my residency at Ircam and the pandemic.
An article is also planed in the Ircam forum where i will go through main points,
Thanks again to Thibaut for the work on Spat~
best
Eric
From now on, discussions and posts relative to xp4l on Ircam Forum are moving here
best,
Eric
quite funnny to read this old thread now 
xp4l is now XP, and has just been released
Check it out here:
https://discussion.forum.ircam.fr/t/xp4l-1-11/31540/14
cheers!
