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workflow: om->lilypond->antescofo or not?

Antescofo
#1

Hi,

I create my scores exporting from OM using omlily. Then I have two problems. One is that lilypond does not export to musicxml (or very limited) and also has problems converting grace notes (and other items) to midi; I want to create an Antescofo score and, as far as I know, these are the two formats that it can import. Then the question is about best practices. Midi or MusicXML ? Lilypond or not ? What would be the best workflow from OM to Antescofo and a printed score ? Please share your thoughts.

JM

#2

Hi Jaros,

Actually, the importer works with MusicXML and Midi. I think it’s better to import a MusicXML score because it contains more informations. We had done some tests with Sibelius and Finale but not with Lilypond… So if you can, you have to prefer the musicXML but the MIDI works really fine too !

If you use Frescobaldi to edit in Lilypond, you can export to MusicXML… Try and see !

Don’t hesitate to tell us any problem that you can be faced with.

julia

#3

If you don’t want to use the user interface of Frescobaldi but just the internal logic, you can look at https://github.com/wbsoft/python-ly which is used internally by Frescobaldi and can export to musicXML.

#4

Dear Jaros,

With the new omlily available here : http://karim.haddad.free.fr/pages/downloads.html
You can export/import in om.
So if you do some changes, then you import them in om and tehn export them back in musicxml to antescoco this might be a reasonable workflow.
However, be aware, grace notes are still note available in om unfortunately. so if you add them this might not work.

Best
K

#5

Dear forum,

Thanks for the replies and good suggestions. My score does indeed have lots of grace notes, perhaps more than regular notes and the score is complex. But the issue is that I get lots of errors when exporting from Frescobaldi and the program crashes. I tried with different machines and systems.
In omlily, I get "the variable |vERSION| is unbound.
I really need something that works but I still refuse to open my Sibelius : )

Cheers

BTW. Ascograph crashes on my Mountain Lion, Max 6.1
You might be interested to see this:
Dyld Error Message:
Symbol not found: __ZNSt12out_of_rangeD1Ev
Referenced from: /Applications/Max 6.1//Ascograph.app/Contents/MacOS/Ascograph
Expected in: /usr/lib/libstdc++.6.dylib
in /Applications/Max 6.1//Ascograph.app/Contents/MacOS/Ascograph

#6

Hi Jaros,

Did you install the links for commandline usage of Lilypond as stated in the README file ?
like here: http://www.lilypond.org/website/macos-x.html
(in the “Running on the command-line” ?)

Best
K

#7

Hi Karim,

Yes I did, because I mainly use the Atom editor with AtLilyPond.
Thanks

#8

Hi Jaros,

Can you open another topic in the forum about the problem with Ascograph? It will be easier for us to deal with it (I think we’ve already encountered this bug but not corrected it yet!).

For the export ly -> musicxml with Frescobaldi, try to use the link above (https://github.com/wbsoft/python-ly). It is the development version so it think it should handle the conversion better than the version embedded in Frescobaldi.

#9

Sorry Folks,
It seems that Jaros has pointed out some topics here. Thanx to him!
Regarding lilypond version, my bad. I will check this on a mac ASAP. It might be a bug.
[ Jaros can you run this in your terminal : bash -l -c ‘lilypond -v’ ] and let me know…
Just to know, are you using tcsh or bash ?
Mac has really big issues with sh… That’s why i don’t use a mac no more!
Anyhow i will investigate and let you know.
For the Antescofo list: … sorry guys, for the off topic… but am glad to try to help out…

Best to you all
K

#10

For Karim:
GNU LilyPond 2.18.2

Copyright © 1996–2012 by
Han-Wen Nienhuys hanwen@xs4all.nl
Jan Nieuwenhuizen janneke@gnu.org
and others.

This program is free software. It is covered by the GNU General Public
License and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it
under certain conditions. Invoke as `lilypond --warranty’ for more
information.

Thanks Pierre, I will try the link. I will also open another ticket but know that it works well on El Cap.

Regards

PS: I go back and forward from mac to linux. Anything that is text related: Latex, Lilypond, works well on Linux but I really have a hard time making audio interfaces work with Ubuntu. I find the mac platform to be very reliable for audio in a live setting/concert. Perhaps Karim could open a forum discussion or on how to deal from composition with OM, score production, sound synthesis and real time interaction with a Linux machine, but I think IRCAM is putting a lot of effort on making things for Max/MSP now. I would love to move to a 100% linux studio !

#11

I know this isn’t a lilypond forum but I think I pinpointed the issue and Karim is a lilypond expert. To illustrate, I have created a simple example (attached)
It only works with either \ottava or \override TimeSignature. No issues when compiling, only when exporting to musicXml. I wonder if this happens when importing with omlily.

Cheers

  
\version "2.18.2"  
\include "nederlands.ly"  

\score {  
  \new PianoStaff <<  
     \override PianoStaff.BarLine.allow-span-bar = ##f  
    \new Staff = "upperupper" 	{ \clef treble  }  
    \new Staff = "upper" 	{ \clef bass 	 }  
    \new Staff = "lower" 	{ \clef bass   }  
     \context Staff = lower {  
        \ottava #-2  
        a,,,16 }  
      \context Staff = upper {  
        16  
        \change Staff = upperupper  
        16  
        16  
        16  
        s1 s1 s1 s1 s1 s1  
      }  
      \context Staff = upperupper{  
        s16  
      }  

  >>  
\layout {  
  \context {\PianoStaff        
    \override TimeSignature #'stencil = ##f   
  }  
}  
}
#12

attached :slight_smile:

#13

I’ve tried your example with the link I posted and it fails on 'stencil. I think the exporter to musicXML is working for a subset of Lilypond, not the whole syntax yet. So you can try to find what subset of the syntax is supported. But maybe exporting to MIDI would be a better solution?

Regarding Linux, there is a version of Antescofo for Puredata that should work well!

#14

Dear Jaros,

Unfortunately, this will not work in import om for these reasons :

  1. Main one, it’s the Pianostaff issue. It is not yet supported by Om , since piano staff for Om doesn’t exist (c.f README included in omlily)

  2. In order to make work things in import, Om exports the bar checks. These i found very practical. So no bar checks no import…

Sorry .
What i propose, is to send the om patch , with the music in it, and i will show you how to do these, including the musicxml export.

BEst
K

#15

As Pierre said, exporting to MIDI might be a better solution and, according to Julia: “MIDI works really fine” so I think the most efficient* in terms of speed would be to use tags in Lilypond to have print and midi versions in the same file and replace grace notes with something with time information for the midi output.

OM.omlily -> Lilypond < (midi -> Antescofo, printed score)

This post deals with the issue of grace notes

https://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1412

\version “2.15.41”

music = \new Staff {
\tempo 4 = 120
\time 2/4

\set Staff.midiInstrument = “church organ”

\key a \minor

\relative c’’ {
\tag #'midi {}
\tag #'print { \acciaccatura gis’8 }
a4 e8. d16
}
}

\score {
\keepWithTag #'print
\music
\layout {}
}

\score {
\keepWithTag #'midi
\music
\midi {}
}

  • Efficient meaning spending less time in the forums and more time writing music !

Cheers

#16

Just be aware that while exporting to MIDI might seem “easier”, with MIDI you do not have Grace Notes, Trills, Glissandi, and depending on how the MIDI is constructed your might loose correct rhythms especially on highly polyphonic scores!

MusicXML exists to overcome such short comings and our MusicXML Importer in Antescofo also handles fermatas, stacatto and micro-tonal pitches… .

#17

Dear Arshia,

I think you just said it all and this is particularly pointed in the Reference, sections 2.4.1 (MIDI) & 2.4.2 (MusicXML) on page 21.

“The Ascograph MusicXML import is optimised for MusicXML exports from FINALE software.” and then avoid this…that…etc.

Then the most efficient workflow would be:

OM -> MusicXML -> Finale -> Antescofo

which goes back the the very first reply by Julia: “We had done some tests with Sibelius and Finale but not with Lilypond”

Thank you !

#18

Finally, I would like to point something that is at the bottom of the Misc section on the Antescofo page

"NAPro is the preferred score editor for Antescofo specially for polyphonic scores. You can import your musicXML scores into NAPro and save them to Antescofo format. Finale already has an XML export. Sibelius users should obtain an additional plugin in order to export their scores to XML format.

NAPro/Antescofo features are currently being enhanced.

NEW! Ircam Forum members can obtain NAPro at a special price. Contact the Ircam Forum coordinator."

Perhaps someone using this pipeline can comment. I don’t mind investing time and money in NAPro in order to have a nice and more fluent workflow (and members get a special price)

merci beaucoup !

#19

@jarosmartin: Regarding your NAPro question: With the new MusicXML and MIDI convertor that is on-line since a few weeks, you should be able to import any MusicXML or MIDI score that is clean. Clean meaning that your extended techniques for example are not drawn graphically but with internal commands and assuming that your host (Finale, Sibelius, LilyPond etc) is exporting everything needed in MusicXML (and not just leave them as graphics).

Therefore, we no longer have a preferred editor. We hope to address most MusicXML files! We invested on MusicXML convertors since this file format is becoming the main interchange bridge these days.

I just updated the Misc web page to reflect this!

For those using NAPro: The action language support in NAPro reflects the state of Antescofo in 2009. Everything works but you should be aware that things have become just better and more robust since then. Maybe @kahamel will consider upgrading his API! :slight_smile: