transient marker sdif export

Hi, is there a reason why in transient marker sdif export the end marker is always a few milliseconds behind the begin marker (see below)?
This confuses simpler programs (like cataRT) that only look for 1MRK frames.
Of course one could filter out the frames with the end markers, but a fix or an option to export only the begin markers could ease the workflow.
(The “embed markers into soundfile” option works also very nicely, thanks for that!)

1MRK    1       0       0.663973  
  1BEG  0x0104  1       1  
        1  

1MRK    2       0       0.6772  
  XTRD  0x0004  1       2  
        0.974148        0.0103719  
  1END  0x0104  1       1  
        1  

1MRK    1       0       1.67326  
  1BEG  0x0104  1       1  
        3  

1MRK    2       0       1.6869  
  XTRD  0x0004  1       2  
        0.405777        0.00298994  
  1END  0x0104  1       1  
        3  

Hi Diemo,
Yes, the duration between the start and the end marker is usually quite short. And those values are correct since they are reported by the SuperVP analysis and read back in AS. So for me the End time is perfectly valid.

What may be confusing is that AudioSculpt merges both ends (and store the start/end time) in a single visible marker. So you might naturally expect to export only this visible part… but i guess the extended informations format in SDIF requires to split the information in a 1BEG and the 1END frame separately.

As an other export solution, in order to filter out the 1END information, you can use a the TEXT export option
Menu > File > Export Analysis As Text > Export Markers As
then select Transient Markers.
It will output an ASCII file that won’t contain the end time info.
exemple:

  
0.000000	0	TrsM	  
0.030950	0	TrsM	  
0.155791	0	TrsM	  
0.435374	0	TrsM	  
0.462178	0	TrsM	  
…etc…

Does Catart need only SDIF format ?
If yes, then i can add an option to export only the start time in the SDIF format.

Tell me what would be the best option for you.

Best,
Charles

Hi Charles,

thanks for the explanation! I makes sense now that the segment contains just the transient part.

This hints at distinguishing two types of data to be exported from transient analysis:

  • the transient *segments* as done now, and
  • the transient *marker* only as 1MRK/XTRD, in the form of
1MRK    1       0       0.6772  
  XTRD  0x0004  1       2  
        0.974148        0.0103719  

Sure, for CataRT the text export will do what is needed.

Hi Diemo,

Attention, in the segment output the XTRD matrix is part of the end frame! This is the end of the transient and somehow the start of the more stable part of the audio event. I would expect you don’t want the end frame for catart, because you would get all transients cut, you most likely want the begin frame which is located in front of the transient?

To Charles: If I remember right n AS we wanted to display the start time of the transient, to be able to apply treatments to individual notes including the transients?

Best
Axel

Hi Axel, Diemo

Yes of course ! For sure in AudioSculpt, we display the start time of the transient, not the end part :slight_smile:
As i suggested to Diemo, the ASCII export of the markers only export the start time. So it is a possible solution (if i understood correctly) for CataRT to get the required information without being confused by the other part.

HTH

Best,
Charles

Hi all —

Without wanting to rehash what has already been typed elsewhere (I don’t see other threads), I’d just like to confirm a few details about the behavior of transient markers in AS.

Specifically, when I run a transient analysis …

  1. and want to move or correct any of these transient “events”, I notice that one of these markers always moves but the other doesn’t. And

  2. if I want to delete one transient “event” I must do it one marker at a time; that is, 1BEG and 1END, but never both at the same time.

  3. No matter how far I zoom in I cannot see these markers separately in the AS timeline; they always appear exactly superimposed on top of one another, and so it’s not clear from the interface which marker is the the 1BEG and which is the 1END.

  4. That also means when I label one of the markers, I never see my label because another marker seems to be superimposed on top of it, and according to AS documentation the label will disappear when two markers are close enough together.

Does all of this seem like normal behavior in AS to you ?

If you need me to provide an example I can do so, as this is easily reproducible on my side. I’m running AS 3.4.6 on Mojave, and my transient analyses tend to include a threshold of 2.0-4.0 and a minimum interval between markers of 20-100ms. I don’t see a difference in this behavior if I change these params.

I’d much rather run and edit a transient analysis in AS instead of OM because the interface seems a bit more friendly, but I haven’t explored all the possibilities for setting this up in MuBu, for example. Perhaps this would work better if there is no immediate solution in AS.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions and wishing you all the best —
Louis

1 Like

Transient markers in AS have two time points. The start and the end of the transient.
You see those two in the inspector window.
In the inspector these are time (1BEG) and endtime (1END) entries.
AS always only displays the begin position.

  1. For moving the marker you select it in the GUI with the mouse and move it around.
    If you edit the values the marker should move if oyu edit the time entry, but not the endtime entry because that one is not displayed. I advice against editing these values because you will have a hard time keeping 1BEG and 1End times coherent.

  2. YOu select the marker you want to delete and press delete key.

  3. AS only displays the 1BEG part, so you never see two

  4. Labels are attached to the 1BEG marix.IN AS you do this in the inspector, you just enter the label in the label field and hit return, then you see it appear in the spectrogram display.

Best
Axel