Hi–curious if the MuBu engine will be available in RNBO at some point?
object in rnbo are different, and so far those supported are the “equivalents” of some of the maxmsp native objects. I doubt there’s plan to offer conversion to third party externals like muBU, and anyways this would have much more consequences in terms of licensing/distribution. But maybe ircam has some insights that i dont have how.
Hi, that depends if Cycling release an SDK for creating external RNBO objects. When I asked they didn’t outright exclude this possibility and said it depends on the needs of users.
If they release an SDK, we would definitely be ready to add, first, the pipo framework and modules, and maybe also parts of mubu.
So the best strategy would be to ask on the Cycling forums and tell them the need you have for extending RNBO (without which it does indeed feel like being locked-in).
Best, Diemo
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thnx will do!
I guess the license question would remain also central, as rnbo license states that users are free to possibly sell plugins made from the framework (because it’s only based on objects which cycling74 has 100% control on). So even if an sdk gets out, @schwarz you will probably face some complicated discussion within ircam about how “freely” the technology could be sold this way 
from the RNBO licensing page:
"If you are an entity with UNDER $200k in annual revenue or funding, you DO NOT need to contact us in order to register your commercial use of code generated with RNBO version 1.X, and you do NOT have to pay any fees associated with your use of code generated with RNBO version 1.X.
If you are an entity with OVER $200k in annual revenue or funding, you WILL need to contact licensing@cycling74.com in order to register your commercial use of code generated with RNBO version 1.X, but you do NOT have to pay any fees associated with your use of code generated with RNBO version 1.X.
We reserve the right to change the terms and conditions of commercial use of code generated with RNBO versions greater than 1.X."
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should be interesting
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yes it is what i meant. This is one of the major rnbo interests : being able to create plugins in maxmsp environnement and distribute them - similar than Juice but at a higher code level .
So imagine tomorrow if you have mubu or other ircam externals going into rnbo, either ircam complies with that, or add a specific license, which i guess it’s possible, but then it would change a bit rnbo ‘scope’ of license. In this case it’s going to be a real headache to track all user plugins/export made with ircam externals in rnbo, if ircam doesn’t want to leave it open.
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Hi fraction,
I find it hard to believe that any developer making RNBO externals would leave it open, Cycling '74 doesn’t do it with its own RNBO externals. Yeah, it’s going to be a headache to anyone that wants to patch their way into selling VSTs. From its pricing policy to the wacky licensing scheme, RNBO won’t save anyone from actually learning C++. Gen is a better pack, and it’s free.
All the best,
António
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what do you mean “open” ? i meant “open” regarding the licensing policy that is involved by rnbo at the moment, which implies that users can sell plugins made with it. And i doubt Ircam will want to comply with that rule, which makes, in my opinion, the main reason why ircam externals won’t migrate to Rnbo (if that’s ever possible). Unless they set up a specific process (additional license, fee whatever).
Hi fraction,
I used the expression “leave it open” in exactly the same sense that you did. I borrowed it from you, I’m sure you know what it means.
All the best,
António
Let’s wait for Cycling’s next action on the SDK release and then we can talk. Indeed, this should be accompanied by a dedicated external license assimilation logic… If not, it will cause similar problems to that generated by Github Copilot
Hi Greg,
Visual artists are now facing many similar issues to those raised by GitHub Copilot, the main difference being that nearly every piece of code out there has already gone through endless cycles of recycling and repurposing before GitHub’s AI-driven dragnet was even a thing.
All the best,
António
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